So I want to build a new army for use in both games of Horus Heresy and games of 40k. Seeing as there are similar structural aspects to the Horus Heresy 30k list and new CSM 40k list, I thought it would be easy to make them cross compatible with few modifications. As most tournaments and social games are now 1850 points I am basing the list around this points cost.
I’m aiming to create a reasonably competitive CSM 40k army list and I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts on the army composition and whether you think it could be improved with regards to its competitiveness, playability and flexibility against different opponents. There are a few limitations on the CSM 40k army list selection however. Obviously I’m wanting to create a 30k army list with this too, so units like Hell Drakes, Defiler’s, Forgefiends etc can not be used in this army list as they would be inconsistent with the theme/look of the army I’m wanting to achieve.
Why World Eaters? They’re bad ass.
So lets go through the army list, remembering that I’ll be using Horus Heresy era miniatures to built it with
HQ
Kharn (As himself using a converted 30k model)
Daemon Prince with Mark of Khorn & Axe of Blind Fury (Angron)
Troops
20 x Khorne Berzerkers with Icon of Wrath, Melta Bomb (Kharn allows these guys to be troops and gives them hatred)
5 x CSM with melta gun
10 x CSM with 2 x melta guns (bolt guns)
10 x CSM with 2 x melta guns (bolt guns)
Fast Attack
3 x CSM Bikes with 2 x melta guns
3 x CSM Bikes with 2 x melta guns
Heavy Support
5 x Havocs with 2 x auto cannons, 2 x missile launchers with flak missiles
5 x Havocs with 2 x auto cannons, 2 x missile launchers with flak missiles
Vindicator
Fortifications
Aegis defence line with Quad Gun
1850 points exactly
So the general scheme of manoeuvre is that the Aegis, Havocs, Vindicator and the 5 man CSM squad manning the quad gun will castle up on some decisive terrain in my deployment zone with the bikes and CSM squads on each flank and the Berzerkers, with Kharn & Angron positioned to advance and decisively engage the targetable centre of gravity of the enemy army. The 10 man CSM squads will move to secure objectives and support the Berzerkers advance and assault if needed. Kharn, Angron & the Berzerkers will be my main effort.
To provide cover fire for the Berzerkers advance the havocs, quad gun and Vindicator will engage and suppress enemy units at maximum range that pose a threat to the advancing Berzerkers, while the bikes turbo boost with their melta guns onto enemy armour or other high value targets to pose a creditable threat in the next turn should they not be dealt with thus restricting enemy armour freedom of movement and target selection. Enemy Flyers will have their freedom of movement restricted by the Quad gun and flak missile launchers within the havoc squads.
So I’m keen to get any constructive feedback on this army list compression. Any considered suggestions would be appreciated, I know there are a lot of pretty serious players out there who have a lot of experience in this department.
Cheers
John Sutton, Brisbane, Qld
The Painting Bunkerc y 
Mate, close combat chaos is dead. You can’t get there in big enough numbers before you die. Beserkers are looking at 3 turns for combat, and although Kharn is a brutal killing machine, GW in their infinte wisdom decided he is no eternal warrior, and so he has a nasty habit of dyng to lone guardsmen with meltas or stray missile rounds. The versitility with the havocs is good, however, they don’t have interceptor and only 2 missiles in each squad is either going to mean you fire and get lucky, or, you fire one squad, fail, and have to use squad 2 as well, rendering the autocannon fire useless and depriving you of your main ranged firepower. I’d ditch the quad gun, use a lascannon, brutal if manned by a charactor as you get to select targets on a 6 to hit, meaning it essentially becomes a sniper. Vindicator, is the goods. Bikes, great option, but they aren’t fearless and lack numbers. I think they are a great option, and cheap, so field them in at least squads of 4 or 5 for that cannon fodder. Troops choices are good, but remember, if you get charged, you’re challenging, and most likely the squad champion will die, (based on most players fielding either marines or eldar in CC.) and when that happens, you are down to LD 8, at best, and if you run, csm can get run down due to the fact that, although they are 10,000 year veterans and live in hell, they are scared of, I dunno, guardsmen? I’d also suggest plasma guns on one of the 10 man squads, for some last ditch ap2 at range, thinking terminators and such. The Daemon Prince, last of all, good, solid, but sticks out like a sore thumb, and in my exp, dies in turn one or 2. I’d go with a Khorne Lord on Juggernought (bike, modelling wise) mixed in with the bikes and axe of blind rage for max effect. Hope this helps mate, Mac.
Thanks for the suggestions. So even with kharn rolling 20 deep in a squad of berserkers you still don’t think he’s worth it? They get fearless, hate (everything) and with the icon of wraith I’d say a turn 2 charge is possible if not likely. In addition with kharn and the champion in the same squad the champ can accept/give the challenge while kharn goes on a blood thirsty killing rampage. Even if the squd suffers 50% cas before CC that’s still 30ish 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound rolls with 1’s being re-rolled (hatred)
As for the quad gun, I like it over the las as its a good all rounder. I hear what ur saying about the havoc a too. Really the flak missiles are there more as a deterrent than a creditable threat to flyers, plus the quad gun will do most of the heavy lifting when it comes to smoking flyers.
I hear what ur saying about the plasma guns and the bike squads size. I think I’ll have to do some rejigging in that department. I’m also not convinced about the lack of transport for the 10 man CSM squads either.
I tried running 20 Beserkers with Kharn, with infiltrate, yeah, still hurts, especially if you deploy at opposite table ends. Beserkers die like any normal marine, but cost 25% more. Transport is the issue. If chaos had any decent Land Raiders, or a Drop Pod, it could work, but they only have the one type of Land Raider or Rhino, and they both kinda suck (a space marine Landraider has a transport capacity of 12, chaos of 10, even tho it’s exactly the same, limiting both terminators and regular troops from deploying in numbers.)The quad gun is useful, decent firepower, but they seem to barely strip hull points, especially with the increasing ammounts of vehicles with armour 12 flying around, and firepower wise, the thing only has 2 wounds, so when it dies, bye bye 4 autocannon shots. Fluff wise, I like the list, (I probably shoulda said so earlier) but I have run chaos lists for 19 years and very very quickly pick up on the limitations, I even tried a list like this prior to the ADF comp, and 8 games later, I had 3 wins, 3 losses and 2 draws (I had the loss part of the draw btw) playing opponents from GK, Crons, Tau, DE, Space Marines, Chaos, Mech Guard and Chaos daemons. It didn’t play as well as you think it would with the fluff and the special rules. Poor Chaos, really got the blunt end of the stick. Mac.
How did you give them infiltrate?
Took Huron Blackheart, get to infiltrate D3 units.
Ahhhh….
If you do that you give up hatred from Kharn. I’d much prefer re-roll failed to hits… Especially from kharn… 1’s are not cool from him
That’s true, but he still has hatred all marine dex’s and when he kills a charactor you get a roll on the boon table which may grant hatred. It’s just the option I found best for the army, infiltrating the Beserkers gave a first turn charge, which they sorely needed.
It says in the infiltrate special rule that you can not charge on the first turn with this rule. I think what I’m going to do is get this army plus a few options so I can play test it in a few different configurations to see how it performs. Primarily I’m interested in having a good looking army that plays well. If I wanted to win every game I played I’d just use crons… Those OP bastards of the 40k universe.
Well, it is true, but at least you can get in their face, or, send melta armed troops foward so they start the game ready to KO tanks. I know if I had 20 beserkers and Kharn looking down the tube at me, I’d shoot everything at them. One of the better khorne players I know is Jeremy Anderson, although he now hates playing with his chaos list in 40k, he could give you even more tips then I on how to employ a beserker army. Just a thought.
Thanks. To be honest tho, I don’t see this as a berserker army. Yes they are my main effort, but I see it as a generic, themed space marine army. I like the idea of how they’ll look more so than how they’ll play. I have no doubt that I’ll win a few with them, but I know that I’ll also loose a few. Especially armies that are monstrous creature or flyer heavy… But thems the breaks.
Well, all I can say is the best of luck and best wishes from me, my friend. My Death Guard are nearing completion, and it drained me working with so much white pre-heresy power armour. But, the FW Legion decals are excellent and make it a synch. Good luck mate!
Awesome! Pics or it didn’t happen. I hope we can get a game in too…
I am gonna try and make it to the ANZAC Cup. I have my first tournament of the year in mid Feb in Sydney, so I guess alot of the good pics wll be coming then, but I’ll see what I can do 😉
Just a few pics of my new army can be found on the WW40K site here: http://www.ww40k.com/2013/?page_id=2096